And once again Francona broke the golden rule...Do not bring Timlin in with inherited runners. What's wrong with Papelbon, Hansen, or Delcarmen at that point...?
Also, Wake had just gotten a double-play ball and had thrown about 90 pitches. Couldn't he have finished that inning?
And, at this point in the season, it should be glaringly obvious that when we bring in someone from our bullpen that we should have others getting ready. No more time for fragile egos...
With three against Baltimore, then home against the Jays and finally the Yankees, I am not feeling so upbeat about the way this team is playing...
Of course, we still have a chance to win the division, but part of me feels we have a better chance at getting past the White Sox for the Wild Card...and I am aware that Cleveland is still trailing there, but I am predicting they will finish in first...Of course, I also predicted the Sox to win the East...
I'm trying not to be too negative here. I feel the season's over, but I know it's really not. They have time to turn it around, I know. Before the season I picked Cleveland to take the Central, Boston to take the WC. I hope I'm right.
Blame Francona all you want, but the fact is: Sox pitching sucks. Wake had thrown 93 pitches, looked pretty tired to me, and was about to face a guy who went deep on him earlier. Let's say he had brought in a rookie (Papelbon, Hansen, or Delcarmen): if they had given up 3 runs, he would've been utterly ripped apart by fans and media for not bringing in Timlin. Given the sorry state of the bullpen, it's damned if you do, damned if you don't for him.
But the fact is: we know the pitching sucks. We've known that for a long time. This team can only make it to the playoffs with hitting, and with the exception of ONE GAME in the last week, that's been utterly lacking...at least for hitters not named "Ortiz".
They need to get 6 runs a game to win. When they do, they're 64-13. When they don't, they're 24-51. Ridiculous, huh?
C'mon guys, get 6 runs the next 10 games. Please.
And also, please: no more comments like
"It's an ill-timed loss, but what are you going to do?" (Mike Timlin)
Timlin is the worst in the majors with inherited runners. 18 of 32, as it now stands, have scored...Everyone seems to know this (and I'm sure that Francona does, as well)...so why does he keep using him in those situations?
If Papelbon is going to be the bridge guy (which he's been) then that is his out to get in the eighth inning...There's no reason not to use him there.
Maybe people would have yelled if Hansen were brought in at that point, but I don't think anyone would have questioned Francona for bringing in Papelbon...
I don't think anyone would have questioned Francona for bringing in Papelbon...
I think you're being way too kind to the Boston media and fans. That said, I agree it would've been a better choice. Not sure what Timlin's problem is with runners -- it's just weird.
Still, the fact is: this is a hitting team. We can talk about pitching and Francona all we want, but the team has basically no shot if they "only" score 4 runs per game.
Bottom line is the bullpen has huge, huge holes. I mean there are about 8 bodies out there and last night I think Francona blinked and may have cost us the game. I guess I shouldn't crticize the guy who brought us our World Championship. And like Earl, I should try to remain positive. But Terry acted like Torre on that one.
The absolute wrong move was to bring in Timlin. Maybe he was greedy trying to get 8 out of Wake. But the pitch count was low. I don't know. I think he paniced.
But Earl you are dead right:
Damned if you do, damned if you don't
AND
No hit. No win.
AND LASTLY
Does anyone really think this team has more than a remote chance to go far into October?
You know...Looking at this team and knowing that they could go on a sick streak is what makes me think they can go deep in to October.
However...with the exception of Ortiz, and (sort of) Manny (who is coming around)....no one can hit. But, when Manny doesn't hit a home run, he doesn't run...Last night AGAIN he didn't run...
So, sadly, I think that if they don't come out on fire against the O's and maintain it the rest of the season that they will do anything even if they make the playoffs.
Let's not forget that they've played for 30-something games straight, so a breather would be nice...Because they look very tired.
Wouldn't one rather see if Papelbon and Hansen could handle situations like that last night instead of waiting for the postseason??? I would...Hell, if Hansen were a Yankee he'd be throwing probably in every game....I know I've said that before, but it is true.
And, again, the Yankees are winning as a team. I get that. Last night the only two runs they scored came on a home run from Lawton...The other night is a walkoff from Bubba...
Does anyone really think this team has more than a remote chance to go far into October?
Good question. I certainly don't. I brought that up almost 6 weeks ago, on August 13, and still feel that way.
Then again, all the AL contenders are seriously flawed -- right now the Indians look like the best overall team. Though I really don't see any AL team beating the Cards.
And we had even more discussion about it here - http://gysnetwork.blogspot.com/2005/08/streak.html
which was kind of my point that you and I had seen this coming for, oh, about a month now.
As for Nomo. He finished the season at triple A Columbus. Sucking so bad the pitching deprived Yankees (at least a month ago) did not even bother calling him up.
Right. My argument, though, (in this thread) has been that if we get to the postseason the setup is more than likely Papelbon in the 8th and Timlin to close.
I actually think the Sox have gotten great starting pitching as of late. Arroyo has been a stud this month. Wakefield is on a tear (and should have walked off with another win last night...and I still say he could have finished that inning). Wells was very good up until his last start (and he needed a shot in his knee), and Schilling has had 3 quality starts in a row including the solid outing against the Yankees.
That's 4 starters that could do battle in the postseason. Certainly they match up against the White Sox and Yankees starting pitching. I'd even take them against LAA because we've done so well against them this season.
It's the pen that is terrible...When Timlin starts an inning, he is awesome. I am confident in Papelbon. I'd like to see more of Hansen, but what I saw the other night was WAY better than Bradford or Harville. Myers is very tough on lefties.
Yes, they have to hit...It is embarrassing. But maybe the day off will help.
I agree on Papelbon and even Hansen. It would appear Terry is not as confident in them, but then again if he throws the kid in the 8th and we lose, the media would be all over him. If you are going to use Hansen when down a run, why not last night.
Overall tough game. I guess anyone could get hot in the playoffs. And why not the Sox. Of course anyone of these teams could also miss the playoffs. Of the contenders in the AL, no one is guaranteed in or out at this point. That is amazing. And it will probably be the same a week from today.
So at this point I would put the following odds for the Sox:
Winning the World Series - 5% Winning the LCS - 10% Losing the LCS - 10% Losing the division series 25% Missing the playoffs - 50%
which is really just another way of saying - take a coin. Red sox are heads. Keep flipping until it comes up tails. So when I tried it the Sox lost in the division series. The good news is that when I tried the same thing for the Yankees - they missed the playoffs.
Cleveland lost the WS CHI lost in the first round
So far so good. But then both OAK and ANA came up tails and missed the playoffs. Its kind of like when I bet on the super bowl based on X-Box results.
And once again Francona broke the golden rule...Do not bring Timlin in with inherited runners. What's wrong with Papelbon, Hansen, or Delcarmen at that point...?
ReplyDeleteAlso, Wake had just gotten a double-play ball and had thrown about 90 pitches. Couldn't he have finished that inning?
And, at this point in the season, it should be glaringly obvious that when we bring in someone from our bullpen that we should have others getting ready. No more time for fragile egos...
With three against Baltimore, then home against the Jays and finally the Yankees, I am not feeling so upbeat about the way this team is playing...
Of course, we still have a chance to win the division, but part of me feels we have a better chance at getting past the White Sox for the Wild Card...and I am aware that Cleveland is still trailing there, but I am predicting they will finish in first...Of course, I also predicted the Sox to win the East...
I'm trying not to be too negative here. I feel the season's over, but I know it's really not. They have time to turn it around, I know. Before the season I picked Cleveland to take the Central, Boston to take the WC. I hope I'm right.
ReplyDeleteBlame Francona all you want, but the fact is: Sox pitching sucks. Wake had thrown 93 pitches, looked pretty tired to me, and was about to face a guy who went deep on him earlier. Let's say he had brought in a rookie (Papelbon, Hansen, or Delcarmen): if they had given up 3 runs, he would've been utterly ripped apart by fans and media for not bringing in Timlin. Given the sorry state of the bullpen, it's damned if you do, damned if you don't for him.
But the fact is: we know the pitching sucks. We've known that for a long time. This team can only make it to the playoffs with hitting, and with the exception of ONE GAME in the last week, that's been utterly lacking...at least for hitters not named "Ortiz".
They need to get 6 runs a game to win. When they do, they're 64-13. When they don't, they're 24-51. Ridiculous, huh?
C'mon guys, get 6 runs the next 10 games. Please.
And also, please: no more comments like
"It's an ill-timed loss, but what are you going to do?" (Mike Timlin)
Timlin is the worst in the majors with inherited runners. 18 of 32, as it now stands, have scored...Everyone seems to know this (and I'm sure that Francona does, as well)...so why does he keep using him in those situations?
ReplyDeleteIf Papelbon is going to be the bridge guy (which he's been) then that is his out to get in the eighth inning...There's no reason not to use him there.
Maybe people would have yelled if Hansen were brought in at that point, but I don't think anyone would have questioned Francona for bringing in Papelbon...
I don't think anyone would have questioned Francona for bringing in Papelbon...
ReplyDeleteI think you're being way too kind to the Boston media and fans. That said, I agree it would've been a better choice. Not sure what Timlin's problem is with runners -- it's just weird.
Still, the fact is: this is a hitting team. We can talk about pitching and Francona all we want, but the team has basically no shot if they "only" score 4 runs per game.
Here were our predictions from the beginning of the year:
ReplyDeletehttp://gysnetwork.blogspot.com/2005/02/al-breakdown.html
Bottom line is the bullpen has huge, huge holes. I mean there are about 8 bodies out there and last night I think Francona blinked and may have cost us the game. I guess I shouldn't crticize the guy who brought us our World Championship. And like Earl, I should try to remain positive. But Terry acted like Torre on that one.
The absolute wrong move was to bring in Timlin. Maybe he was greedy trying to get 8 out of Wake. But the pitch count was low. I don't know. I think he paniced.
But Earl you are dead right:
Damned if you do, damned if you don't
AND
No hit. No win.
AND LASTLY
Does anyone really think this team has more than a remote chance to go far into October?
You know...Looking at this team and knowing that they could go on a sick streak is what makes me think they can go deep in to October.
ReplyDeleteHowever...with the exception of Ortiz, and (sort of) Manny (who is coming around)....no one can hit. But, when Manny doesn't hit a home run, he doesn't run...Last night AGAIN he didn't run...
So, sadly, I think that if they don't come out on fire against the O's and maintain it the rest of the season that they will do anything even if they make the playoffs.
Let's not forget that they've played for 30-something games straight, so a breather would be nice...Because they look very tired.
Wouldn't one rather see if Papelbon and Hansen could handle situations like that last night instead of waiting for the postseason??? I would...Hell, if Hansen were a Yankee he'd be throwing probably in every game....I know I've said that before, but it is true.
And, again, the Yankees are winning as a team. I get that. Last night the only two runs they scored came on a home run from Lawton...The other night is a walkoff from Bubba...
Does anyone really think this team has more than a remote chance to go far into October?
ReplyDeleteGood question. I certainly don't. I brought that up almost 6 weeks ago, on August 13, and still feel that way.
Then again, all the AL contenders are seriously flawed -- right now the Indians look like the best overall team. Though I really don't see any AL team beating the Cards.
You know what is great? When you read those predictions, we weren't too far off in some things and WAY off in many others.
ReplyDeleteI like the mentions of Nomo and the D-Rays...Where is crazy Nomo anyway?
I did nail the west, but I was way off with the Central (sort of)...If Hunter hadn't gotten hurt maybe the Twins do win it...
And we had even more discussion about it here -
ReplyDeletehttp://gysnetwork.blogspot.com/2005/08/streak.html
which was kind of my point that you and I had seen this coming for, oh, about a month now.
As for Nomo. He finished the season at triple A Columbus. Sucking so bad the pitching deprived Yankees (at least a month ago) did not even bother calling him up.
Right. My argument, though, (in this thread) has been that if we get to the postseason the setup is more than likely Papelbon in the 8th and Timlin to close.
ReplyDeleteI actually think the Sox have gotten great starting pitching as of late. Arroyo has been a stud this month. Wakefield is on a tear (and should have walked off with another win last night...and I still say he could have finished that inning). Wells was very good up until his last start (and he needed a shot in his knee), and Schilling has had 3 quality starts in a row including the solid outing against the Yankees.
That's 4 starters that could do battle in the postseason. Certainly they match up against the White Sox and Yankees starting pitching. I'd even take them against LAA because we've done so well against them this season.
It's the pen that is terrible...When Timlin starts an inning, he is awesome. I am confident in Papelbon. I'd like to see more of Hansen, but what I saw the other night was WAY better than Bradford or Harville. Myers is very tough on lefties.
Yes, they have to hit...It is embarrassing. But maybe the day off will help.
I agree on Papelbon and even Hansen. It would appear Terry is not as confident in them, but then again if he throws the kid in the 8th and we lose, the media would be all over him. If you are going to use Hansen when down a run, why not last night.
ReplyDeleteOverall tough game. I guess anyone could get hot in the playoffs. And why not the Sox. Of course anyone of these teams could also miss the playoffs. Of the contenders in the AL, no one is guaranteed in or out at this point. That is amazing. And it will probably be the same a week from today.
So at this point I would put the following odds for the Sox:
ReplyDeleteWinning the World Series - 5%
Winning the LCS - 10%
Losing the LCS - 10%
Losing the division series 25%
Missing the playoffs - 50%
which is really just another way of saying - take a coin. Red sox are heads. Keep flipping until it comes up tails. So when I tried it the Sox lost in the division series. The good news is that when I tried the same thing for the Yankees - they missed the playoffs.
Cleveland lost the WS
CHI lost in the first round
So far so good. But then both OAK and ANA came up tails and missed the playoffs. Its kind of like when I bet on the super bowl based on X-Box results.