All the expected areticles have come out today. "Is he done?" "Is he old?"
Of course after the down year he had (including injury and surgery), it should come as no surprise. Everyone seems to quote the numbers on over 35, etc. etc.
What I do find funny is not one articl mentions that Posada, exactly one year older, had a really nice bounce back season last year. H exceeded his career averages in nearly every offensive category. Will tek do the samd? Who knows. I'm just surprised that in a NY obsessed city, the observation was not even noted.
Another coule of gems by a writer, this time Mike Lupica.
ReplyDelete"The media didn't do this to the Yankees. Their fans, the ones who show up four million strong every year at Yankee Stadium, didn't suddenly develop delusions of grandeur."
I love the four million every year. Its been two years. He makes it sound likd the Yankee fans are so loyal and have been packing the house in the last ten years during their streak. Even the Blue Jays sold over 4 million seats three years in a ros. And it started before they had won their first WS.
And in relation to Rivera and whether he should get paid, "Michael Jordan, at the end, got paid as much by the Bulls for the past as he did for the present."
Um, Jordan's Bulls won the Championship in his last three seasons with the team. Each year Jordan was the MVP of the finals. And in two of the last three seasons, Jordan was MVP for the entire season. Sure he was being paid for the past.....
And back to Clemens for a sec...
ReplyDeleteDino, if the Sox pony up the most $$, you will have to eat those words. Its always been about the money for him. And I don't think this year will be any different.
Here's the thing...
ReplyDeleteI am the first one to point out that the Yankees dump the guys that helped them in their now not-so recent streak of Championships...Hell, they dumped Tino Martinez for Giambi. Tino was part of the backbone of that Yankees run. A class act. Bring in the "we just lost in heartbreaking fashion to the Yankees" Giambi for the $$$.
Then, they brought in Sheffield. Another high-quality player, but he takes O'Neill's spot. Now, the Yankees didn't say goodbye to O'Neill, but Sheffield is not as classy...by a long shot.
Their most recent addition was Damon, who flat-out stated that he could never play for the enemy, and jumped ship for a few million.
They've basically followed this pattern for a while. And it hasn't gotten them a championship. Reminds me of the post-champ Yankees in the late 70's...Bring in a bunch of big names, big money guys...they only care about themselves...do not win championships.
Of course, it was George back then, too.
Yes, the 80s had Mattingly and Winfield (pretty class guys)...the 90s has Matsui and as much as Sox fans hate him, Jeter. But they have a lot of "me" type guys.
So, why would it surprise anyone that they would let Rivera go as he ages?
This is not to say the Sox haven't done the same thing.
They let Pedro go...by the way, they look really smart for doing so now, don't they? (We'll have to wait and see on Damon)...
Millar? Gone...Bill Mueller? Gone...Both good guys whose value diminished...
And you can't blame them for Manny's individualistic behavior. They've tried to trade him.
Note, by the way, that this is a comparison, not a contrast. These are two teams with high payrolls...When there isn't a spot left for a player, what can you do?
These teams are EXPECTED to win. Bernie was great...He probably has another .280, 12 HR, and 75 RBI season or two left in him. But Cabrera showed he deserves time in the bigs...The Yankees need to get younger (as the Sox are trying to) to continue to compete.
I can't blame the Yankees for waiting to see how Rivera pitches. It is a similar situation to Schilling (without some health issues).
TEK is "gone" like I am gone....and I'm not going anywhere!!!
ReplyDeleterivera will remain a yankee, just as varitek will remain in boston.
ReplyDeletei could easily see varitek coaching when his time comes, and then managing.
one more thing about posada, he had his best defensive year ever as well last time around. having tony pena around helped him immensely.
as for bernie, as stated, melky needs the at bats. bernie was a class act and will likely have his number hung up in the new stadium, but they wouldn't be able to get him enough at bats to enable him to be productive. he wouldn't even be the 1st choice for pinch hitters off of that bench. (and how often do the yankees need a pinch hitter?)
re: following this pattern of letting players go in favor of signing expensive free agents
they are actively reducing their payroll and getting younger for the first time that i can recall. (clemens rumors aside)
meanwhile, the sox are throwing money around like mc hammer after "please hammer, don't hurt 'em" went quadruple platinum.
it will be interesting to see where this takes the rivalry in the future.
And for all the Sox throwing money around and the Yankees reducing of payroll, the Yanks are still higher than the Sox by about $30 Million. And they have no real pitching future. They hope and pray that Hughes is the next Petite (a nice number two type pitcher) and they dream about him being a number one. But what they really should be watching is the Liraino case and how young arms tend to shatter. And since they babied him last year, who knows what arm strength he has. I imagine NY will soon be singing the what if blues with Hughes.
ReplyDeletewhat is your assessment of hughes based on?
ReplyDeleteeverything i've read says that he's right on schedule.
they're "babying" him in order to systematically increase his workload. they are raising his inning count by about 30 per year. that is standard.
studies have shown a vastly increased risk of injury if a kid's workload is increased drastically.
they're just attempting to avoid a mark prior/kerry wood/fransisco liriano kind of blow out.
see: http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-year-after-effect/
if i was hanging my hopes on one young arm, i'd "baby" it, too.
and the yankees' AAA rotation is actually looking pretty good.
ReplyDeleteall they have in their system is pitching (except for one supposedly future all-star OF, but he's 19 and coming off some hand injuries.)
pitching is actually their strength in the minors.
...i'm just saying...
from boston.com:
ReplyDeleteHere's how speculation gets started: Daisuke Matsuzaka asked for and received a uniform from Ichiro Suzuki, with whom he became good friends during the World Baseball Classic last season. The two had dinner before Sox camp opened. With Ichiro a prospective free agent after the season, you're going to hear talk about Boston being a possible destination.
I think that the Yankees are stockpiling arms in hopes of making a trade for an impact arm, like Santana. They can have all the promising young arms in the world, but until a young guy becomes productive in NY (or Boston), he is an unproven commodity.
ReplyDeleteHughes is only 20 and put up great numbers last year. So he maybe he really is a potential number one. But he could just as easily be a Liriano. Or a Prior. Who really knows. He could be Rick Ankiel and his head may explode when he reaches the Bronx. The rest of their guys are fillers (Karstens, Clippard, Rasner). Back of the rotation guys that the Yankees will have no use for. Like the Sox, they don’t really need a cheap young pitcher if they can get one who is 2-3 games better even if he costs $10MM per year.
My trouble with babying arms is that it does not allow them to develop arm strength. The Japanese (and the Braves) do a lot more throwing than most MLB organizations do now. And as a result there are fewer arm injuries. So sure, it makes sense to have a guy be babied so that you protect your investment. But I think it cuts both ways.
yes. a few of the arms will likely be shipped out. and for every 10 pitching "prospects" you're really lucky if you get three solid big league pitchers.
ReplyDeletei've never seen hughes pitch, so i have no idea how he'll pan out, but i was curious to hear if you'd heard something less than stellar about him.
i also agree that an argument could be made for throwing more or less (thus the link i posted earlier). the old timers (mathewson, etc.) threw three hundred innings a season. however, i do think that asking a kid who has never thrown much more than 100 innings to double his innings is dangerous.
is it april yet?
Not to focus on the younger and cheaper comments, but...
ReplyDeleteDoes trading Sheffield for some prospects count as getting younger? Isn't his replacement Abreu? And, yes, Abreu is younger, but he might be prime years-plus at this point.
Mientkiadfandr and Cairo ain't spring chickens...Pettitte definitely isn't young.
They might be reducing payroll, but really where did they do that? They dumped Bernie (and he made nothing last year) and traded Sheffield. Meanwhile, their starting OF is Matsui (13 MM), Damon (13MM), and Abreu (13.6 MM).
Infield A-Rod (25MM..I know they don't pay all of it), Jeter (20+MM), Giambi (20+MM...I know he's the DH, I guess)...Cano is the only bargain of the bunch. Posada (12MM).
They paid big for Pettitte, are still paying Pavano big bucks, Mussina is raking...not sure where they are cutting back...
Sorry, Jeff, not trying to pick on you. I know that is what a lot of people are thinking, but I don't think the numbers tell that story. Not yet, anyway.
Also, The Sox threw money at Drew...
ReplyDeleteThe Sox paid a decent price for Lugo considering what the league was paying to everyone else...
Daisuke? They paid a lot for him, but he's a "projected" top of the rotation guy, and they gave him less than alot of other free agent pitchers.
As far as getting younger...The Sox will have three and maybe four (Lester) starters 26 years old and younger.
Their CF is 27.
Wily Mo is 25.
Youk will be 28 when the season starts.
They have Delcarmen in their pen...Hansen on call.
Pedroia is 23 and won't be 24 until August.
Yes, they have a few big contracts, but their payroll will fall off in a year or two...with them being in very good position, not having to fill many holes.
The Sox spent some money this offseason, no doubt. The only reason the Yankees didn't was because they've spent tons over the past few years...
alright, i'll try to keep this brief... i'm on my way out of here...
ReplyDeletethe yankees "saved" $24M that they owed randy johnson over 2 years(they sent $2M with him, that obviously is not included in the savings).
they then sent sheffield and his $13M off to detroit.
yes, they spent $16M on pettitte, but i'd rather overpay for one year than three. (pettitte said he wouldn't take the option if he wasn't in peak physical condition.... they trusted him... time will tell if that was wise.)
the youth comes into play not in abreu, but in the 7 kids that cashman got for those pitchers and sheffield. they are all really young and the addition of those young (and cheap) arms has put the yankees' farm system in many people's top 5 overall.
igawa is 27. pavano, while not cheap nor an addition is 31... that is younger than randy by about two generations. (and if gil meche is getting $11.1M a year, pavano's $10M would be about right... if he manages to pitch on a regular basis.)
alright. time to drink.
g'night.
Ok, I can see some of that...but I don't think that prospects count as younger...
ReplyDeleteAnd farm systems don't mean much until they actually produce. With that said, many said the Yankees had nothing...then along comes Cano. Then along comes Cabrera...although Cabrera did tail off...
I totally spaced on RJ...but I still don't think that was a good move by them.
Also, if the Yankees struggle at all (which won't come from the lineup side) George will be telling Cashman to dump some young arms for something this year. That's the way the guy works.
Well, I think both of you guys are right. the Yanks are younger. And they are cheaper than they were at the end of last year.
ReplyDeleteAnd I think they are a worse team than they were last year as well.
which will lead to them dealing some of these young pitchers they have. Probably for a starter come July 31. Or who knows, a blockbuster come next November. I know everyone says he is untouchable, but wouldn't the Yanks have to consider trading Hughes, Cabrera, Sanchez and Tabata if the Twins decided to make Johan avaialable? Or when they are 8 games back on July 31 and just spend $20 MM on Roger, won't it make some sense to trade a couple of those guys for Buerhle, Garcia, or Smoltz (or whoever is available? Of course they will. Just like if the Sox have the need and/or the option they would do the same.
are the yankees worse than they were last season? perhaps, but if so, not much.
ReplyDeletethey'll have matsui and abreu all year, as opposed to melky cabrera and bernie williams.
melky cabrera will be getting the at bats that went to the illustrious crew of terrance long, aaron gueil, etc. last year. (cabrera's production "tailed off" because his playing time was slashed when matsui and sheffield returned. they want to give him more at bats, which is one reason why williams will be working on his next album this summer.)
offensively, they have improved.
their bullpen has improved. plenty of depth this year, if torre uses anyone other than scott proctor. if rivera is healthy, their pen is solid.
the rotation is their big question mark, as it was last year.
we'll see.
they'll definitely make a move to get pitchinhg at some point this season. i don't think they'd trade hughes, even if it meant missing out on santana. i'm not sure how i feel about that, but i think they've decided that this kid is the future of the franchise.
sorry if the yankee-centric discussion has caused stomachs to turn.
Where will Cabrera get at-bats this year? Matsui and Damon are everyday guys, as is Abreu.
ReplyDeleteGiambi is your DH. I am not sure how long that will last, though, with Mientadklwe playing first. Great glove...no bat. So maybe Giambi plays first a lot, and Cabrera DH's. I'd rather face that then Sheffield any day of the week.
As for the Yankee-centric talk...They're in the East...totally relevant...
But, let's bring it around the Sox a bit here.
I expect Lugo to put up Damon numbers this year minus the RBIs.
Youk working the count in the 2-slot. Higher average with more fastballs because he is followed by...
Manny and Ortiz still the most feared 3/4 combo.
Drew protecting Manny. Seriously, Manny could knock in 140 this year (if Papi doesn't take all the RBI away).
Then the order starts to slow. But maybe not. Lowell could have another good year. I can't believe he is only 32 right now. He looks 40.
Tek is due for a bounceback year.
Crisp was a great hitter down in the lineup in Cleveland. Another bounceback?
Pedroia...I think I am the only one in this GYS Network that has huge doubts about this kid.
Overall the lineup is vastly improved...
Pen depth. The addition of Donnelly was tremendous. The Sox have a ton of bullpen arms. Romero, the Japanese guy, Tavarez, Piniero, Delcarmen, Timlin, Hansen, Hanseck...That is a lot of depth.
Yes, no closer, but one will emerge or they will deal for one.
And their starting pitching looks solid with six contenders. Schilling, Wakefield, Daisuke, Papelbon, Beckett, and Lester.
So, it's all out there...Only a month or so until it all goes nuts...I can't wait...